Poem 4
To watch my video on Pizarnik (surreal narrative) and Mullen (poetic appropriation, please click on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qrTCjoW2Yw THE SURREAL NARRATIVE · Create a situation where people or forces of nature (wind, rain) or animals or plants or objects, etc. are doing impossible things, either to themselves or to others or with others. · Decide on either a single narrative in the poem with a beginning, middle, end OR several narratives with only emotional tone or some other connection as the thread. As Pizarnik does, you can explore your own emotions—externalizing them, never using “I.” This will be easy for some of you: Manuel is inspired by horror and sci-fi movies and video games, Brianna wrote an ekphrastic poem about Kahlo that's close to a surreal narrative, and Janessa can make this fit her interest in creating poetry that inspires people to overcome their demons (a...
To characterize Timothy Liu is that he's known for his visceral imagery and also can be explicit at times.
ReplyDeleteYes, I concur with both points, and, when you listen to his YouTube reading, how does that visceral quality and explicitness come through in the public reading style? For example, does he do it loudly or softly? Does he read it in a strong or ironic or understated manner? Do you get the impression that he wants to "shock" the audience or not be very dramatic?
DeleteI feel like he's doing it loudly with the usage of languages like the word whores. Reminds me of a show where they only use the F-word once to show the shock of it.
DeleteThat makes sense. I haven't heard him read publicly more than a few times, but if my memory of his live performances serves me, he tends toward irony in his phrasing--neither loud nor soft. And that can be a shock technique, too.
DeleteIndeed. Swearing can be used to shock people and grip that person more to it, it's more than just a comedy tactic.
DeleteAlso for Timothy Liu, Louise Bennett and Lucile Clifton. They all revolve around social issues but have their own way of talking about them. Liu is similar to Lucile because of their calmness but Liu uses explicit terms to catch people off guard with a dose of humor or shock while Louise keeps it short. Louise is more boisterous and uses the same dose of humor as Liu.
ReplyDeleteYes, Louise Bennett is much closer to lively singing than Liu and somewhat closer to it than Clifton. Of course, Bennett's use of Jamaican "nation language" (as Kamau Braithwaite calls it) has a different quality, especially for those in the U.S. who are less familiar with it.
DeleteHello Professor Fink,
ReplyDeleteAfter listening to all three poets and their reading styles, I would have to say that I noticed some differences between the three poets' reading styles.
While listening to Louise Bennett, I found that used elements of culture in her reading. For example, I noticed that she spoke with a Caribbean accent. I also noticed that during her read aloud, she made a lot of people in her audience laugh. As someone who likes learning about different people's culture, I found it very educational and interesting to learn more about Caribbean culture.
While listening to Lucille Clifton, I found that she read and spoke in a way that showed strong command over an audience. When she was reading her poem, I felt like she read her poem in a way that evoked feelings of inspiration over the audience. I also liked the topic of her poem. Another thing I noticed while she was reading was her form of nonverbal communication. While she was reading, I noticed that she conveyed the feelings of her poem through her facial expressions. For example, I like how at the end of reading her poem, she smiled in a way that conveyed the feeling of victory which was expressed through the last words of her poem.
While listening to Timothy Liu, I found that he read his poems with a quiet poise. He read his poems with a quiet voice that conveyed a depth of feeling while listening to his readings. I also noticed that while reading, he always made sure to maintain periodic eye contact with his audience.
I would say I appreciate all three of their reading styles.
Janessa, you are making crucial points about all 3 readers. Given your interest in the poetry of inspiration, your comments about Clifton are especially relevant and apt. Many of her poems frequently have a markedly inspirational dimension on the page, and I have heard several recordings of her that translate that dimension to the realm of public performance through the assertive, or as you suggesting, "commanding" reading style.
DeleteWhen it comes to Timothy Liu, I would say that I deeply admire the quiet poise he demonstrates in his reading because I feel it helps readers to truly sense the emotional atmosphere of his poetry. Plus, I admire it because I feel through reading with such a silent poise, he makes his read aloud more powerful and meaningful to the audience.
ReplyDeleteYes, I admire it, too. And "quiet poise" tends to characterize his conversational style when one is speaking with him, so the reading style fits what I've observed of his overall personality.
DeleteThis is from Aliyah:
ReplyDeleteAfter listening to Louise Bennett verbally express her poem i see a big difference from when we went over it in class. She emphasized certain works, you could her the question and genuine confusion in what she was saying. She spoke like a true Caribbean parent. There’s an obvious distinction from us trying to pronounce certain works and that ah ha moment of clarity when she says it. You can get the true gist of what she is saying by her reading it and not by someone else who isn’t from the culture nor who has the accent.
Lucille Clifton spoke with a lot of passion. You can tell she truly cares and endured everything that she spoke about. I feel like if i was to read what she said i won’t come close to even perfecting it the way she did. She didn’t speak fast, she pronounced her words very clear, she made sure she got her message across. She made sure the audience felt what she was saying.
TF: Aliyah, regarding Clifton's passion, maybe with practice you could come close to perfecting the way she did it. After all, by the time she did that reading, she had a lot of time to perfect her style.
Hi Professor Fink,
ReplyDeleteAfter listening to both YouTube videos, I found both reading styles to offer a cultural versatility that helped you learn more about the expansiveness of language.
For example, as someone who is learning Spanish, I found Adelia Prado's reading at the 2014 Griffin Poetry Awards to be very educational and inspiring. What I found educational about listening to Adelia Prado as she read her poem is learning more about the pronunciation and sound of the Spanish language. I got more in touch with how the Spanish language sounds when it's being spoken. What I found inspiring about listening to Adelia Prado is that when she read her poem in Portuguese, I saw how the sound of different languages can expand on words' meaning and feeling. While I listened to Adelia Prado read the poem in Portuguese, I sensed a dramatic feel with the words. I feel that the reading of it in Portuguese gave the words a deeper feeling when they were being read. Additionally, I feel that the dramatic feel I sensed with the words gave the poem more depth. I felt like I could sense Adelia Prado's feelings more deeply when I heard her read it in Portuguese.
When I was listening to Adelia Prado's poem being translated and read in English, I found myself drawn to the translator's reading style as well. What I liked about her reading style is that it evoked a sense of power over the audience. What I mean by that is I felt that when she read the poem, she read each word in a way that evoked the words' meaning. I think what could have contributed to that is the pitch and tone of the translator's voice. I felt like it was just right. It wasn't too low or too loud but just as it needed to be in order to be heard and felt by the audience. Another reason I like the way the translator read is because I feel that when poetry is being read, it's important that it's read in a way where the audience can sense the feel of the poem and I feel that the translator did that in her reading.
Janessa, I think it's very understandable that one would find an emotional core in a poet's parent language. As someone who knows only about 50 words of Spanish and no Portuguese, I wonder about the possible differences in pronunciation between the two languages. I have heard that Portuguese is more guttural than Spanish, but Spanish-speakers have told me that there are a lot of similarities in words on the page.
DeleteThe translator herself has published books of poetry in English, so she's adept at reading poetry.
As I was listening to Etel Adnan'd reading in French, I found it hard to concentrate because I didn't understand what was being said. However, I was able to glean two insights from watching and listening to her reading. The first insight I gleaned from watching Etel Adnan's reading in French is the importance of language and communication. Etel Adnan's reading showed me that when we are communicating our feelings through poetry, it's important that we give thought and attention to the language being used because if the poem is written in a language or style of communication that isn't always understood by readers, then it becomes easy for the poem to lose its meaning to the readers. In spite of me having a hard time concentrating, I still found it educational and enjoyable to listen to the French language as it was being spoken.
ReplyDeleteThe second insight I gleaned from Etel Adnan's reading was the connection between words and art. I thought it was very interesting how while she was reading, they also showed pictures of art. Observing that helped me to see how art and words are connected. Based on Etel Adnan's reading, I feel the connection between words and art is that art is the expression of words through pictures and colors. Now that I think about it, I think they may have shown the art as a way to help readers understand the poem even though they may not have understood the language the poem was being read in.
Additionally, this also shows how art in itself is a form of communication.
Janessa, Adnan is a visual artist as well as a poet, so the multimedia presentation is a logical thing for her to do.
DeleteRegarding the inaccessibility of the French language to you--which is the opposite of my situation, as I studied French in school and didn't study Spanish-- you should also realize that the Romance languages share a great many similarities in parts of words due to common Latin etymology, so that even if you don't know French, you can recognize a certain number of words in each sentence.
T.S. Eliot declared that poetry can communicate before it is understood. He was speaking perhaps of the challenging, somewhat collage-based Modernist poetry of the 1920s and 1930s. It may be true, as you say, that "it becomes easy for [a] poem to lose its meaning to the readers" when it's written in a "difficult" style, but there are readers who like to expand their horizons and challenge themselves with "difficult" poetry, and there are literary critics and teachers who like to help those readers in meeting that challenge. Furthermore, a reader can suspend the search for meaning in a foreign-language poem and focus on the sonic effects, as I think you, Janessa, managed to do in hearing Adnan's poetry.
I would like to say that each of the styles of Adnan is that it calmer despite me not knowing French while Wattson and Prado seems more humorous but explanatory.
ReplyDeleteYes, Manuel, I too was struck by the calmness of Adnan's reading. Those who know Prado's work would probably agree with the characterization of "humorous but explanatory," and in Prado's facial expressions and speaking tones, the humor is relatively understated; perhaps her way of reading includes a tone of irony.
DeleteThis comment is from Diamond:
ReplyDeleteThe only comment I have to make about listening to the poem in different languages is how the tone changes for the poem . When In English it sounds more sad and slow to me but when the poem is read in a different language it’s doesn’t give me the same feelings . Also the thing I love about the “In Portuguese “ is the manipulation of words and using it in a different way and always that the words wasn’t simple but more advance .
I don’t have questions about poem 6 . I am just thinking how I am going to do the second option but not trying to tell the movie all I am parodying and know how to use it with a life matter
TF reply: Diamond, it's interesting that Portuguese makes the words sound more advanced. I'm not sure why that would be, unless some languages "sound" more formal than ordinary English.
Regarding the parody, pick only some of the key plot points of the movie, and let the reader fill in the rest. It may create a sense of mystery.
This is from Aliyah:
ReplyDeleteGood evening,
Below will have my discussion for today’s class
Etel Adnan and her friends- Adnan was very engaged with the audience. She kept eye contact and used a lot of body language. She kept an even pace when speaking to the audience and took long enough pauses in between her sentences. I believe a strong relationship with the audience is key to reading poetry and getting a certain “vibe” across
Watson & Prados- Prado read the poem very slowly and emphasized certain words maybe trying to mimic the way Watson would have read the poem. English translation sometimes loses the true meaning or mixes up words so i believe she was trying to keep it as “original” as possible. While she was speaking it almost sounded as if she was trying to make it musical. When Watson read you could feel the emotion behind every word she said. Although i couldn’t understand what she was saying i could feel why some words were emphasized. She spoke with passion in her voice.
Poem 6- do we have to make it known what parody we are doing or should i automatically be inferred while being read?
TF reply: Regarding the musical aspect of Prado's reading, it is possible that the vowel sounds in Portuguese might make the language sound especially musical to (English-speaking) Americans.
I agree that Watson was shooting for an emotional delivery. She is clearly very moved by Prado's poetry. and of course she is a big advocate for it in this country!
Thank you for asking the question about parody: YES, everyone should tell me what they are parodying, because otherwise, I may be unfamiliar with it and I may not recognize how good a parody you're doing! If I am unfamiliar, I will use Google to get quickly up to speed.
i listened to Gwendolyn Brooks read her poems aloud and took note of the painstaking annunciation. she really makes sure to account for ev-er-y syllable. she also uses a combination of anaphora and alliteration to emphasize certain words. this is something i probably would not have noticed had i not actually listened to her recitals. an example of this is in her poem "The Near-Johannesburg Boy" where she places much emphasis on alliterated words such as "short shot" or "loud laugher" she also uses anaphora: "Those people" "My father". when reciting the poem aloud she makes sure to show emphasis by elongating her pronunciation of "Thoooooooooooossseeeeee people" and "Myyyyyyyyyyyy father" i found it to be a clever and effective way of, in effect, producing a sense of colloquialism; making it seem like the poet is directly in front of you, talking to you as if she has known you for years, casually telling you a story.
ReplyDeleteThis is a wonderfully precise analysis, Jason!
DeleteIn the “Griffin Lifetime Recognition award recipient Adelia Prado reads at 2014 Griffin Poetry Prize awards", video, the translator's (Watson) style is slow, methodical, pedantic and navigating. She mediates on every word and every syllable. The rhythm is well-thought out and very well executed. To me, though you can tell she is reading something on a paper and not simply reciting it, it lacks true confidence. Her style is characterized by poetic pause, every full-stop sounds astute, but contrived in an unnatural way. That is not say, the reading wasn't done well, it was, but it sounds more natural on Prado's tongue and in her native language than in English.
ReplyDeletePrado's style is similar but comes across way more effortless, her words rolls off of her mother-tongue. It is innate and pure like an uncontaminated crystal or jewel. You see, even though she is reading from something, it's not as detectable; her words seems like everyday language, fluid and inherent.
In the Adnan's video, "Etel Adnan & her poets friends"---since, I could not understand the language, I took notice of her body language, the way certain words rolled off of her tongue and out of her mouth. She was lively and emphatic in her delivery, there was an air of performance, an element of straightforwardness suggested. The fact that she didn't just stand there, reading off the paper the whole time, made the experience and intimacy with the audience, all the more captivating. She incorporated the aura of the room into her performance, taking into consideration her audience and inviting their presence into the narrative.
Brianna, you raise the issue of reading vs. reciting by bringing up the case of Watson. This is a point where there's a great deal of divergence of perspectives in the various poetry communities. Clearly, "Spoken Word" poetry and other forms of Performance Poetry, stemming in the U.S. from the Nuyorican cafe in the late sixties/ seventies (and probably much earlier) validate dramatic, fully embodied recitation and would find Watson's reading "contrived in an unnatural way," whereas some poets want the words to do all the work and don't want to get in the way with big performative gestures, so their sense of what is "unnatural" is quite different from that of "Spoken Word" poets, though the latter sub-genre has a large range of stylistic features and I should be hesitant to generalize about it. And there are many poets who are eclectic in their reading modes and might, at different times, come close to Watson and at other times to Performance Poetry.
DeleteAlso Brianna, I posted my script on the discussion.
DeleteAfter hearing Dr. Louise Bennett read her poetry, I noticed how culture driven her form of speaking is. She seems to emphasize on her Jamaican accent which correlates directly to her poetry. Her form of expression seems almost song-like. She kept her audience entertained and engaged by keeping a radiant energy on stage. She maintained a smile throughout her reading and even incorporated some light humor which the audience enjoyed.
ReplyDeleteTimothy Liu's style differs quite a bit from Dr. Lou's form of expression because of his poise on stage. He utilizes body language with certain words to emphasize meaning. He also takes certain pauses to induce dramatic effect. I also enjoyed that he brushed upon certain explicit topics but made it flow with the rest of his poem.
After watching Adelia Prado read her poetry I wondered if there would be a difference hearing the poem in its original language, Portuguese. Often translations leave small details out that can change the poem slightly. I wonder if I knew how to speak the language, her poetry would translate the same or differently. I enjoyed hearing Prado's poetry and it seems to reflect a lot on moments that have passed.
If we look at all of the posts several of you did on Bennett and Liu's styles, I think we've reached a consensus. This may be less true for Prado.
DeleteThis is from Diamond:
ReplyDeleteWhen listening to the poem in English the tone is chill and calm not a serious tone something you can laugh at here and there . When Listening to the poem in Korean the tone is kinda of serious sounds the opposite when hearing the poem in English, I was uninterested in the poem even though I didn’t understand it but the tone didn’t help . Both different tones give me a different type of vibe about their poems I was more interested in “we real cool” poem .
Hi Professor Fink,
ReplyDeleteI just got through listening to Gwendolyn Brooks "We Real Cool" and Kim Hyesoon's "South Korea". Based on what I heard while listening to them, one way that I feel the reading tone was different was in the flow and pace.
When Gwendolyn Brooks was reading her poem, "We Real Cool", I felt that she read it in a way where her poem sounded like a song. However, I feel that the flow was enjambed but then a little inclement at the same time. For example, after she read one line, before going on to the next line, you could sense that there was a chop there in between the lines. Also, I felt that she read her poem with an even pace. While it was a short poem, I feel that she didn't read it too fast nor too slow but, she read it at a pace where it was fast but still even enough to feel the meaning of the lines.
While listening to Kim Hyesoon's "South Korea", I also felt like she was reading her poem like a song. The difference between her reading and that of Gwendolyn Brooks is that she had a smoother flow and a slower pace. While I was listening to her reading, I felt like she read with a slow pace that evoked a feeling of depth and understanding, meaning that her slow pace of reading helped me as a listener to truly sense the meaningfulness of her poem. In terms of her flow, I felt that she read her poem with a smoother flow. For example, while listening to her, I didn't feel that the poem was ripply. It sounded and felt like each sentence flowed after the other without any chops in between. As a result, it gave off a smoother feel and sound.
Overall, I loved both of their readings. I feel they both had something to offer us in terms of different ways for reading and writing our poems.
Janessa, you make an important point about the interpretation of enjambment in public readings. Some poets use the "chop" and others don't. (Creeley was very big on the pausing, as you can see if you youtube one of his readings.)
DeleteYou seem to believe that both of their readings are "song-like," but in different ways. It would be interesting for everyone to consider what features characterize a song-like and a non-song-like reading. W.B. Yeats' famous reading of "The Lake Isle of Innisfree," which you can find on Youtube, along with its introduction, is UNMISTAKABLY song-like in that it is literally very close to actual singing.
The way both Gwendolyn Brooks and Kim speak is like night and day albeit similar. Both are very calm when they speak but Gwendolyn has this swagger to her and even this humorous vibe as well.
ReplyDeleteManuel and Diamond may be noticing the same kind of differences between the 2 poets' oratorical styles, and a lot of us might consider this to be an effect of cultural differences. It would be interesting to see readings by other Korean poets reading in Korean such as Ko Un to determine whether a larger sampling reveals a similar style. I myself have not conducted that experiment.
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